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                  <text>The Jeanne Arnold and Barbara Lindquist Papers</text>
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                  <text>Jeanne Arnold (formerly Jeanne Chalekian) is a lesbian feminist author of Racine, Wisconsin. Arnold was born on November 14, 1931. She attended the University of Wisconsin-Racine Extension for two years and continued her bachelor’s degree in English education, library science, and journalism at UW—Madison, graduating in 1953. In 1952 she married Harry Chalekian and became the mother of two children. In the 1970s she divorced her husband to begin a life with her partner, Barbara Lindquist. Lindquist was born on May 25, 1930. She earned an associate degree from Wright Junior College in Chicago and a B.A. from UW-Parkside in 1971. &#13;
&#13;
Arnold and Lindquist founded Mother Courage Bookstore and Art Gallery in Racine in 1978 to promote feminism and to establish a gathering place for women. In 1981 Phyllis E. Sweet asked them to publish her manuscript entitled Something Happened to Me, which addressed child sexual abuse. Mother Courage Press published 5000 copies. The press eventually published 25 books on the theme of abuse, feminism, feminist spirituality, and lesbianism.  </text>
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                <text>View from inside a crop circle</text>
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                <text>View of a hill from a path leading to the crop circles.</text>
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                <text> Aliens</text>
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                <text>2005-08</text>
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                <text>England</text>
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                <text>The Board of Regents of the University Wisconsin System</text>
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                  <text>Carole Gottlieb Vopat Holocaust Survivor Speaker Series </text>
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              <text>Adele Zaveduk</text>
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              <text>    5.4      Adele Zaveduk Presentation, 2009   1:20:49 UWP Manuscript Collection 018 Carole Gottlieb Vopat Holocaust Survivor Speaker Series UWPMC018 Carole Gottlieb Vopat Holocaust Survivor Speaker Series University of Wisconsin - Parkside Archives &amp;amp ;  Area Research Center    Holocaust France Genocide Adele Zaveduk mp4 UWPMC018_Zaveduk_2004.mp4 1:|8(2)|16(7)|24(6)|33(8)|43(1)|53(12)|60(11)|68(2)|78(15)|88(6)|97(12)|106(5)|115(1)|122(3)|131(6)|140(1)|149(8)|157(12)|165(1)|175(6)|183(6)|191(15)|198(14)|207(14)|214(10)|223(16)|232(13)|240(2)|248(2)|256(12)|266(4)|272(10)|279(15)|287(1)|294(15)|303(2)|309(14)|317(3)|324(11)|333(8)|341(3)|349(10)|355(11)|361(13)|374(3)|381(12)|389(10)|397(1)|405(1)|412(5)|421(13)|430(11)|437(18)|447(14)|456(10)|465(10)|472(4)|485(10)|494(5)|501(7)|512(5)     0   https://archives.uwp.edu/files/video/UWPMC018_Zaveduk_2004.mp4  Other         video    English     0 France and the Arrival of War   I was born in 1937, now you know how old I am, I was born to a normal family. My father, my mother, I was their oldest daughter, and in 1940 my younger sister was born. When did things change, there was already a lot of turmoil in Germany. It was bad, for everybody, but France felt like they were going to be able to defend themselves against them, they were wrong.   Zaveduk talks about the beginning of the war in 1940 and how life began to change in France.                               714 Leaving Paris   And we went to a small town about a 175-180 miles from Paris, called Brou, it’s close to Chartres, where there is a big cathedral, in a medieval town, it’s absolutely unbelievable.   Zaveduk describes how her family left Paris for the French countryside and how she was separated from her mother.                               1166 Life in the Country with Madame Millar   Madame Millar was an honest person, she was a good person, and now she had 5 children to take care of, and then I remember a while later a Jewish boy came to live with us, there were six. My mother had been taken to Auschwitz, she couldn’t send any money, and yet Madame Millar never did anything against us, never denounced us, she kept us.   Zaveduk talks about her time living with Madame Millar, the woman who sheltered her and her sister during the war, and the hardship they endured.                               1678 Arrival of the Allies and Life after the War   In 1944, in the summer of 1944, we were all playing outside, there was no school, a lot of planes came by, I know it may seem ignorant to you, maybe naïve, but we had never seen a plane. We didn’t know what they were, and those things were flying very low, and we could see the face of the person that was piloting, and then all of a sudden, they passed over our little house, and they were turning around, turning around the small town, and then they start dropping bombs.   Zaveduk talks about Brou’s liberation and the affects that the war had on her family going forward.                               2679 Question and Answer   What was the name of the city that you were living in that was liberated? Answer: Brou. It is a small town.   Zaveduk answers questions about her experiences during and after the war.                               Oral History Adele Zaveduk, Holocaust survivor from France, recalls her experiences before, during, and after the Holocaust.  Adele Zaveduk: As your professor just said, I was born in France. I know, talking about the  Holocaust it seems like everything goes on in Germany, Poland, but you have to  remember that Germany invaded all of Europe. And had made the decision to  eliminate all of the Jewish people from all of Europe. So they reached all of it.    I was born in 1937, now you know how old I am, I was born to a normal family. My  father, my mother, I was their oldest daughter, and in 1940 my younger sister  was born. When did things change, there was already a lot of turmoil in Germany.  It was bad, for everybody, but France felt like they were going to be able to  defend themselves against them, they were wrong. In 1940, Germany invaded France  and divided France in 2 parts ;  Free France which was the southern part of  France, and northern France that was occupied. When the Germans came, they took  over the government of course, and they brought with them all new laws and  everything that they were doing in Germany, they implemented in France. My  father was called back into the army, and this time was sent, that was early  1940, he was sent to North Africa. France had a colony there, and they had to  defend their colonies too, so my father was sent to Algeria, and he helped the  train that ran from Algeria, to Tunisia, almost all the way to Egypt. He was  there for 2 years. My mother was left home with 2 small little girls, how she  managed I have no idea, there&amp;#039 ; s no way I can even imagine. Things for us,  everyday became more and more difficult, for her especially. Paris was all  quiet, so at night you couldn&amp;#039 ; t have light because they were afraid they were  going to be bombarded, all the windows had to be covered, and everybody was in  their house and in the streets was very insecure. Jews were told to report to  the police station, and when they registered they were given a yellow star, no  they weren&amp;#039 ; t given, they had to purchase a yellow star and sew it on their coat,  and they were not allowed to go in the street if they didn&amp;#039 ; t have the yellow  star. Now France being very generous decided that children under 5 years old  didn&amp;#039 ; t need the yellow star. Now I was not 5 so I never had the star, and this  haunted me that I find out that it-- That children under 5 didn&amp;#039 ; t need it but  every time I look at pictures or I study the Holocaust you see children from  Poland, from different countries, from Europe, they all have a yellow star. But  children from France didn&amp;#039 ; t need it by then. We were not allowed to go to the  park, we were not allowed to you know. Jewish people had a car it was taken away  from them, very few people had a car in those days, and if they owned a business  it was taken away. Little by little their rights were taken away. Grocery  shopping, it sounds like nothing, but they were only allowed to go to the store  between 2 and 3 o&amp;#039 ; clock in the afternoon. Well if you work, that isn&amp;#039 ; t very  easy, and there was a ration, but the ration was for everyone. But they had to  show a document, and on the document it shows in Europe, you are born with a  religion. Your parents are catholic, you are catholic. Your parents are  protestant ;  you are protestant. And for the rest of your life, for the  government, you are the religion of your parent. So Jewish people, and Jewish  children were Jews. So everyone had their document, and you had to carry your  document because it had your picture on it, there was a big J stamped in red  that shows that you were a Jew. So if she went to the store before or after you  were supposed to, they would not sell to you. Jewish people were not allowed on  the Metro, the Metro is the subway, you weren&amp;#039 ; t allowed to take the train, I  mean it was difficult.    In 1942, my father was released from the army and came back to Paris to live  with us. By then it was very dangerous, because by then the Germans were  rounding up all the young men and sending them to Germany to work as slaves, so  they make them work, seven days a week from morning till night. So my father  didn&amp;#039 ; t really want to get caught so he wasn&amp;#039 ; t living with us because by then the  French police would come to our apartment quite often, in the middle of the  night, in the middle of the day and knock on the door, and look for my father.  They still didn&amp;#039 ; t have an order to take the women and the children, but it was  common. In July of 1942 the Germans gave the order to take all the Jews, sick  from the hospital, old people, young people, babies, man or woman. They took  them all in one day, and that day raided all of Paris and took 12,900 people  into the Velodrome d&amp;#039 ; Hiver. It is like a sports arena ;  the velodrome is where we  race bicycles. They kept them there between 7 and 10 days. No food, no water, it  was July it was very hot, people got sick, it was horrendous. My mother was able  to escape that raid, because in the same building that we live and this was  before there were apartment buildings, there was a gentleman that worked for the  police station he wasn&amp;#039 ; t a policeman, he worked inside, and he was friends with  my parents, and he went down to my mother and said &amp;quot ; please stay home today,  don&amp;#039 ; t go out&amp;quot ;  or he would say &amp;quot ; get out and don&amp;#039 ; t come back until tonight&amp;quot ;   because they are searching that area of Paris. And I remember a lot of times and  there are children here so they will understand that, he would tell us that  because we lived in Paris there were only apartment buildings and there were no  electronic doors or nothing, there was a concierge, a person that was in charge  of the building, that would clean the building and check the building, open the  door, close the door, and continue with everyone&amp;#039 ; s life. So my mother would take  her two little girls and go out and talk to the concierge, but what the  concierge didn&amp;#039 ; t know is that my mother would turn around the building, and I  will show you later a picture, it was next to the building where we lived, Paris  is not flat, not like around here, so the front of the building was on one  level, and the back of the building was on another level on another street  because there was an inclination there, a little hill, I won&amp;#039 ; t call it a  mountain but you know what I mean. So there were steps carved in the stone to go  to the street above. So my mother would take us, the two of us, and she would  walk around the building and knock on the window of the neighbor and you would  come out from the front he was on the second floor, if you come from the street  from behind it was on the street level. And he would open the window, and help  us crawl into his apartment, through the window, and my mother would be sure to  take off our shoes, and we&amp;#039 ; d tip toe to our fourth floor apartment, and we stay  there, very very quiet, so if the French police came to look for us, the  concierge would say &amp;quot ; they went out, they didn&amp;#039 ; t come back yet&amp;quot ; . So you can see  this is a very passive way of resisting them, my mother did whatever she could.    My father was taken during that raid in Paris, and sent to the velodrome. Was  kept there about ten days and from there sent to a detention camp in the  outskirts of Paris called Drancy, and from there, all the Jews were sent to  Drancy, and from there, all of them, 120,000 Jews, from France, were sent to  Germany to Auschwitz. When my mother realized that my father was not around, she  knew she had to take something, a very drastic measure. She has to do to  something, because even though they say that people didn&amp;#039 ; t know what was  happening, and it&amp;#039 ; s not true, they knew that something bad was happening to the  Jews, they didn&amp;#039 ; t know what, but they knew. They were taken to the work camps,  called the concentration camp in those days, something was happening because  people were talking about it. So my mother found a family in the country side  that they agreed to take us. And keep-- I mean full-time babysitter, how do you  say it, I don&amp;#039 ; t know. Nourrice they call them over there. So my mother decided  she has to do something, she talked to my aunt, her sister, and asked if she  wanted to bring her little girl with us, and my aunt refused, she said she  cannot separate from my girl, of course later on they were caught and sent to  Auschwitz and they didn&amp;#039 ; t come back. So my mother took her two little girls, to  take the train she had to take off her yellow star, and deliberately she forgot  her document because her document was stamped with a J for Jew, and she took  very little clothes with us because she didn&amp;#039 ; t want to catch anyone&amp;#039 ; s attention.  So we took the train, we were excited, what child isn&amp;#039 ; t excited taking the  train. And we went to a small town about a 175-180 miles from Paris, called  Brou, it&amp;#039 ; s close to Chartres, where there is a big cathedral, in a medieval  town, it&amp;#039 ; s absolutely unbelievable. So when she arrived in that small town, and  she looked for Madame Millar that&amp;#039 ; s the name of the lady that took us in, Madame  Millar. She found that little house, it was in the poorest part of town, by the  way it was a tiny town, our bedroom was on the second floor, there were two  rooms, no washroom, no running water, no gas, there was electricity, that I  remember but that&amp;#039 ; s it. And we were going to live there with -- and 3 of her own  children. I am sure that she took us in because they were very poor people. Her  and her daughter used to go and wash laundry and people&amp;#039 ; s houses, because at the  house in those days&amp;#039 ;  no one had a washing machine, so they figure if they get  some Jewish children and keep them, they will be paying for it because my mother  was (unintelligible), wanted to pay her. So my mother took us there and saw the  condition of the house and I&amp;#039 ; m sure my mother was very disappointed and she  asked Madame Millar to take care of us and she was going to try to find work in  the surrounding farms, because the men were in the army or taken prisoner or in  the underground, so really they needed working hands and my mother was not  afraid to work. So Madame Millar, thinking that my mother was going to look for  a better place for us to be went and denounced, Madame Millar, denounced my  mother to the gendarme. Gendarme is the ruler of police in France. They looked  for my mother, forced her to go back to the train station, where she had to take  the train back to Paris, and when she arrived to Paris she was home for about a  couple of weeks, and one day when she was on the streets, she had to go out and  get some supplies, she was arrested, I don&amp;#039 ; t know how to use that word because  it&amp;#039 ; s wrong, she was stopped on the street by two teenagers, my mother was petite  like I was, and they drag her, they force her to go with them to the police  station, where they turned her in, because she was Jewish, they were giving cash  rewards for turning in their neighbors, they had done anything to them,  (unintelligible) so from there she was taken to Drancy, and a few months later  she was sent to Auschwitz.    Before I talk about my parents, because even though my father was taken in 1942,  in August of 1942, and my mother was taken in 1942, in September she was taken  to Drancy, and in 1943, in February of 1943 she was taken to Auschwitz, I have  documents that shows it, but my sister and I, were one of the few lucky  children, that both parents came back, survived Auschwitz. 6 million people  died, they did not. So when I mentioned that Madame Millar denounced my mother,  it&amp;#039 ; s because my mother told me, much later on, which she did about 15 years ago.  So it&amp;#039 ; s something that I&amp;#039 ; m talking about and it&amp;#039 ; s the truth. So when my mother  took us there, she never told us why she was taking us, where she was taking us  and when. We had no idea that we were Jewish because she never talked about it.  She knew it would be a death sentence if we were stopped in the street and asked  any question, children are very innocent and very young and so they would say &amp;quot ; I  went to the synagogue&amp;quot ;  instead of saying church, so I had no background, who and  where, nothing. And because she was not able to come back that night to see us,  she never said goodbye. Let me tell you, years and years, I&amp;#039 ; m talking a lot of  years for me to forgive myself, because I was angry with my mother, very very  angry. Why did she leave us, why did she abandon us? When you are 5 years old  you don&amp;#039 ; t understand that sacrifice that this woman made for her children. She  didn&amp;#039 ; t know if she was going to see us again, or us her. She wanted us to  survive, and she tried her best. But when you are 5 years old, that doesn&amp;#039 ; t go  very far and we felt abandoned, it was very painful, we cried a lot, what could  she go do, where can we go, you need an adult to help you, you need food you  need shelter, we were in a strange town, and we didn&amp;#039 ; t know anybody, but at the  same time children are very resilient and very very fast to adjust to different  conditions, and we did.    Madame Millar was an honest person, she was a good person, and now she had 5  children to take care of, and then I remember a while later a Jewish boy came to  live with us, there were six. My mother had been taken to Auschwitz, she  couldn&amp;#039 ; t send any money, and yet Madame Millar never did anything against us,  never denounced us, she kept us. She shared everything with us, her house, and  let me explain, it was very very humble, there were two beds, one big bed in a  room for the children, and we slept 6 children in one bed. 3 at the foot, 3 at  the headboard. And she slept in the other room with her daughter on the other  bed. Food we ate when there was food, when there wasn&amp;#039 ; t food we didn&amp;#039 ; t eat And  when I talk to school children, as I do quite often, I have to explain to them  we didn&amp;#039 ; t eat not because we didn&amp;#039 ; t like what she cooked, she had nothing to  cook. Because we lived in the country she was able to go and find some potatoes,  but worse than anything, turnips and as an adult I cannot even look at them.  They aren&amp;#039 ; t bad, but that was our diet most of the time. It was not good  tasting. As far as clothing, we had very little, because she had very little and  her children had grown, but the people she was working for, washing their  laundry they were very nice and gave us old clothes so we would wear whatever  the people gave her. In the summer we walked barefoot because she couldn&amp;#039 ; t  afford shoes, we didn&amp;#039 ; t have shoes. In the winter a neighbor in the small town  used to do with pieces of wood would carve out little clogs, and that&amp;#039 ; s what  shoes we would wear, but to keep our feet warm, of course we had no socks we  wrapped them in newspaper. And the newspaper would get wet because it does rain  in France, it does snow in France, the newspaper got wet, we didn&amp;#039 ; t read the  newspaper, we were using the old newspapers that people were giving her, to  light the fire, to keep our feet warm. So you can see it was difficult. I was  lucky because right away I went to school, kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 3rd grade. My  sister followed up, but not the first year, because she was too young and they  could not afford to send her to nursery school so she spent a lot of time with  them. And everyone has a different memory but she remembers being beaten a lot,  (unintelligible) and until today, she is a doctor and has a degree in law and if  you approach her and she doesn&amp;#039 ; t see you coming and you want to touch her face  because maybe there is something there, the first thing she does. So you can  imagine that 60 almost 70 years later on its still there you cannot come real  close to her because these things so she must have been beaten a lot. Like I  said I was lucky because I was in school, and because I was a little bit older  and I could go outside to play, I don&amp;#039 ; t know, or maybe she was more troublesome  than I was I don&amp;#039 ; t know. I just know that things weren&amp;#039 ; t very easy. Also because  she was at home she remembers things that I have no idea, sometimes we talk  about when I see her, she lives in (unintelligible) she told me there were a lot  of males coming to the house, well I don&amp;#039 ; t know about that, but she does I never  wanted to know an explanation I didn&amp;#039 ; t want to know detail but it had changed  her from the happy little child that she was to an unhappy person. My sister I  love her ;  we get along very well but she&amp;#039 ; s she has something set in her that I  don&amp;#039 ; t want to go into too deep because I know (unintelligible).    We lived a normal life, I thought it was normal there were more kids than  (unintelligible). One day we were sick with chicken pox, there was no vaccine in  those days, and we&amp;#039 ; re home, the 6 of us, there were 6 kids with chicken pox I  don&amp;#039 ; t know how she could manage but we were in bed, the one bed, and we heard  very heavy footsteps and the door opened and we heard a German voice say &amp;quot ; Madame  Millar&amp;quot ;  and they were looking for the Juden kid, and Madame heard them coming  up, so she took the 3 of us, the little boy, my sister and myself, and pushed us  under the bed. And the German stood at the door and realized the kids were sick  and he never walked in. Now from under the bed I was able to see 3 pairs of  black boots, there were that many, I will never forget that, but they never  walked into the room, maybe they were afraid to catch the chicken pox, and I  don&amp;#039 ; t blame them. Later on, I was about 7 years old, but I wished they had come,  not realizing they were there for us and being killed right there, but in my  child&amp;#039 ; s imagination I was thinking maybe the whole German army will get chicken  pox. Well I was wrong, because they never walked into the room and adults can&amp;#039 ; t  catch the chicken pox. But it&amp;#039 ; s funny how a child imagines. Like I said, life  was normal, what we accepted to be normal, as far as our parents, father hadn&amp;#039 ; t  been with us since 1940, my sister had no idea who he was, I vaguely remembered  him, I had some picture where my father was (unintelligible) other than that, he  was not living with us every day, he was in the army for 2 years, so I don&amp;#039 ; t  know. And women, because that separation had been so painful, we just assumed we  had no mother. So we were happy, we had Madame Millar, we called her Meme, which  is the name for grandma, so that was it.    In 1944, in the summer of 1944, we were all playing outside, there was no  school, a lot of planes came by, I know it may seem ignorant to you, maybe  naïve, but we had never seen a plane. We didn&amp;#039 ; t know what they were, and those  things were flying very low, and we could see the face of the person that was  piloting, and then all of a sudden, they passed over our little house, and they  were turning around, turning around the small town, and then they start dropping  bombs. Well I have to tell you, that when you watch a movie, or you watch TV,  and you see things blowing up, they do blow up, but it&amp;#039 ; s not glamorous. It&amp;#039 ; s the  most scary, frightening thing that can happen to you, in a word it is not fun.  My sister was hurt in the leg, for months she couldn&amp;#039 ; t walk. Houses were  destroyed, people perished, the smell was unbearable, because things burned in  the house. They were British soldiers, they were not trying to bomb our house,  and they were trying to destroy the railroad, because the Germans were using the  railroad that was going through our little town, to bring reinforcements to the  front. So by destroying the railroad, they couldn&amp;#039 ; t use the trains. It didn&amp;#039 ; t  take long, they repaired them and used them again but those were in that small  town stayed for a very long time, and memory has a strange way of bringing up  things, I remember the morning of 9/11, my son called me on his way to work, he  called me from his car, &amp;quot ; mom please turn on the T.V.&amp;quot ;  I said &amp;quot ; What&amp;#039 ; s going on  its 8 in the morning.&amp;quot ;  &amp;quot ; Mom put the T.V. on, don&amp;#039 ; t ask.&amp;quot ;  Of course I saw what  was happening, and the smell, the smoke, the smell of smoke that I had witnessed  when I was 8 years old was in my house. I could smell the smoke that was  happening in New York, there was no smoke in my house, but the impact was so  tremendous I felt like I was back in France, so it stays with you, and any  little thing can trigger it.    In 1944, later &amp;#039 ; 44 they invaded Normandy, and little by little they invaded  every small town. Because we were in the northern part of France, not far from  Normandy our town was one of the first one that was liberated. One day a huge  convoy of tanks, have you ever seen a tank? You never saw a war tank? Did you?  Did you? No? They are big. They are huge. (Inaudible) I&amp;#039 ; m sure up close I&amp;#039 ; ve  seen them. They are very big, very scary but they were driven by American  people. They were liberating us, everybody was happy, singing, crying, kissing  each other. There was an American soldier standing on top of the tank because  they were not allowed to go down. There were a few Germans that were taken  prisoner and they were moved to the side, and they were very nice to us. I&amp;#039 ; m  going to ask you some questions, guess what day it is. But speaking English we  didn&amp;#039 ; t really understand it, we spoke French, but they were very nice to us, you  want to guess? No? You shy? Well they were very nice, they threw us candy, my  little sister, she was lucky, she got a life saver which she ate immediately and  when I see her, I&amp;#039 ; m going to see her next month, I take a box of life savers for  her, and you know she&amp;#039 ; s an old lady now like me and she still puts them away and  hides them and don&amp;#039 ; t share. Those are her candy. I was not lucky, do you want to  know what I got? Chicklets. Gum. There was no gum in Europe. But it was very  pretty, the box was yellow not orange, I couldn&amp;#039 ; t find a yellow one. So I put  the candy in my mouth and it sticks to my teeth, and I spit it out of course.  But I kept the little yellow box because it was the only thing I owned that was  mine. I kept it for one year, until I got back to Paris. But this was mine. We  didn&amp;#039 ; t own any toys, we didn&amp;#039 ; t have anything, the few pieces of clothing that we  had to share among us. There was no my sweater or your skirt it was this sweater  and this skirt. And whoever needs it gets it, and if it&amp;#039 ; s a little small, well  too bad. So the town was liberated, that night there was a bonfire in the small  town, everyone was very happy, some men were able to come back and live with  their family, but as far as our situation nothing had changed. We didn&amp;#039 ; t know  nothing, there was no television, there was no radio, Madame was too poor to buy  a newspaper, and in those days adults never talked about nothing with their  children, children were supposed to be quiet, seen and not heard so we didn&amp;#039 ; t  know anything that was going on. So we didn&amp;#039 ; t know really what was going on. We  knew what was going on surrounding us, but as far as the war, absolutely not.  Until May of 1945, that part of France was liberated in summer 1944 so we&amp;#039 ; re  talking 11 months later a man came to visit Madame Millar. He talked to her and  said to her that he was our father, he wanted to see us and he couldn&amp;#039 ; t take us  back to Paris now but he would come back and get us, and when Madame said that  to us we were absolutely devastated. We didn&amp;#039 ; t know him, we didn&amp;#039 ; t remember him,  he had the nerve to come and say he was our father, we didn&amp;#039 ; t know him. It took  about 2-3 months and my father came back and that day he was to take us, that  weekend. I cannot describe the scene at the train station, we held on to Madame  Millars Skirt, we were begging, crying, asking Jesus to help us because not  knowing that we were Jews we went to church, so Madame Millar shared her  catholic religion with us and I became very very good, so um as kids that&amp;#039 ; s when  you learn, 8 years old 8 and a half. So we kept begging in Jesus name for him  not to take us but she didn&amp;#039 ; t have no choice, so we got on the train with my  father we ride all the way to Paris, but when we got there he didn&amp;#039 ; t have  anywhere to keep us, he didn&amp;#039 ; t get his apartment back, he took us to an  orphanage that had opened the doors to take in the Jewish children that had been  found around the country so that if someone had survived they could find them, a  grandparent, a relative, someone, sadly 99% of the children were left orphans.  Most of them later on were smuggled into Palestine and later on became Israel,  and by the way today is the day of the creation of Israel. Perfect for this  talk. So we were there with the children and that&amp;#039 ; s where I lost my little  chicklet box because they took away our clothes, they gave us new clothes and  they took away everything we had so the little box went. We were in the  orphanage for about 3 months, we woke up on a Sunday, we had clothes, we were  fed, and the only problem was I was separated from my sister. And it was very  very painful, because we had been together all the time, but I can understand  the logistic of separating children by age so they can go to school. In that  time is was very painful for us. One Sunday the gentleman that said he was our  father, he was, came with a lady, well that woman was hysterical, she was crying  she wanted to hug us, she wanted to touch us, she wanted to kiss us, she said  don&amp;#039 ; t you know me I am your mother, don&amp;#039 ; t you know me? Well no, we had forgotten  her, we didn&amp;#039 ; t have a mother, and we had Madame Millar. And it was hard enough  to be separated from her, and it was hard enough to accept those two people.  When the French government gave them back their apartment, where they got  furniture, a place to sit at, a table I had no idea, because we were two young  children, that&amp;#039 ; s a parents job. So we went to live together again, my sister  accepted my mother immediately, I was very rebellious, very much in pain. And  for one year I wouldn&amp;#039 ; t let her touch me, or comb my hair, I accepted that she  cooked the food and the clothes that she gave us, but I didn&amp;#039 ; t want to talk to  her, I didn&amp;#039 ; t want nothing, I can&amp;#039 ; t imagine how much pain I inflicted on her. I  was not mean, I was angry and I could not believe she was my mother. But after a  year, she was so nice, she was so patient that I went to her and I said &amp;quot ; you  must be my real mother because nobody has been so nice to me&amp;quot ;  and since then I  accepted her, but the bond between mother and daughter had was cut, it was never  the same. My sister and I, we loved her respected her, we cared for her, we  would have done anything for her, but something was missing, we weren&amp;#039 ; t able to  get to that closeness again. Another things, because I had gone almost 4 years  to Catholicism, I wanted to do my first communion and my mother kept saying  &amp;quot ; Jewish children don&amp;#039 ; t do first communion&amp;quot ;  but I didn&amp;#039 ; t know what Jewish do or  does or don&amp;#039 ; t do, I had no idea what they do because I was completely. My  parents were no traditionalist and that&amp;#039 ; s because they had suffered through the  concentration camps, I can understand some people turned toward religion and  became very religious, some people kind of accepted the fact that what happened  and turned away from what happened. We just from there-- (inaudible) In 1948 my  brother was born. My brother was born on April 23, and I know most of you are  not from the Jewish faith, but in the Jewish faith when a boy is circumcised at  8 days, it is part of religious tradition and my mother didn&amp;#039 ; t want my brother  circumcised because she felt that that&amp;#039 ; s how they find out that the boys were  Jews, like that and most of the Jews that survived were girls because they  couldn&amp;#039 ; t find out their religion you know, she -- but believe it or not, 61  years ago Israel was born, not that we&amp;#039 ; re talking about Israel but it just  happened, and in those days when a mother had a baby she stayed there for 8 days  and before she went home she heard that the United Nations had granted Israel  the title of the country, it is a state for the Jews, he will have a home, and  she had my brother circumcised. (inaudible)    In a nutshell I can tell you a lot more details, but I&amp;#039 ; m sure that you have some  questions, and if you ask me I will be honest in answering them. Any questions.    Question: What was the name of the city that you were living in that was liberated?    Zaveduk: Brou. It is a small town    Question: where is that near?    Zaveduk: Chartres. (Inaudible) It is a little town, it is still there, and the  roads are not straight.    Question: When did you come to the United States and why?    Zaveduk: When did I come to the United States? In 1951, my father who had worked  for 3 years in the concentration camps in the mines, and because of that work he  died of a heart attack, leaving my mother with 3 small children. There was no  family left in Paris, there was one cousin left, everybody else had been killed.  My uncles, my aunts, my cousins there was no one. How much I envied the kids  that used to say on the weekends I went to visit my grandparents, we didn&amp;#039 ; t have  that so. My mother had some family living in Argentina that had been there since  the beginning of the century, and she knew about them and she had the address  and everything, so my mother wrote to them, so my mother went to the council in  Paris, the council from Argentina, and she was denied a visa because we were  Jews. So even so even then all the Germans, the S.S. were coming to Argentina  after the war to hide, they wouldn&amp;#039 ; t let us in, so my mother went to Bolivia,  the council of Bolivia, and they gave us a visa. The problem was it takes 3  weeks to cross the ocean. Um you have to go to the West side because you cannot  get there from boat because it&amp;#039 ; s a landlocked country so we had to go to Buenos  Aires to find a place to stay, and I stayed there, My mother stayed there, she  died there, my sister is still there, my brother stayed there then he came to  the states. I got married in Buenos Aries, I went to school, I learned to speak  Spanish, um and my first son was born and then there was an up rise of  antisemitism in Buenos Aries, nothing that you could feel personally because my  husband never feel it, he was of Jewish faith didn&amp;#039 ; t feel it, but I couldn&amp;#039 ; t go  in the street. It made me sick, when I read, &amp;quot ; help your country kill Jews&amp;quot ; .  Inaudible- it just tore me apart so I asked him if we could move and he said  &amp;quot ; yeah where do you want to go?&amp;quot ;  I said I want to go to Canada because I speak  French, but they wouldn&amp;#039 ; t let us in because he wasn&amp;#039 ; t in the profession they  were looking for, he was an electronics engineer but they didn&amp;#039 ; t need any of  that. So we went to the American embassy and two weeks and we got the permission  to come and that was in 1962 and since then I&amp;#039 ; m here. And I never talked about  what happened to me until about 18 years ago. My mother who lived in Argentina  used to come and visit me once a year, once every 2 years, and there was a  museum a small museum Skokie Holocaust Foundation, and somebody who was working  there asked me if my mother would go in and be taped and I said I cannot ask  her, you ask her. So she asked my mother and my mother said yes. So she went  there, made a tape and asked for her testimony and really that&amp;#039 ; s the first time  that I talked to my mother about what happened during the war because I had  never asked her any questions and I was already quite older by then, and I said  mother how come you didn&amp;#039 ; t talk about those things? And she looked at me very  seriously and she said why didn&amp;#039 ; t you ask? I said I didn&amp;#039 ; t ask because I didn&amp;#039 ; t  want to bring back sad memories and she said and I didn&amp;#039 ; t tell you because I  didn&amp;#039 ; t want to burden you with my sad past. So we were kind of protecting each  other, in the wrong way, but I didn&amp;#039 ; t want to upset her and she didn&amp;#039 ; t want to  upset me so I never asked her any questions. But when thinking back when we  lived together in Paris, when my father was alive, a few of their friends had  survived you know they went to visit homes and when they were they would visit  them, there were really very few friends, of family there was none so they would  talk, very open because everybody lives in a small apartment you didn&amp;#039 ; t think  you were being loud and the kids were in the same room, uh I heard a lot of  stories but I was too young to understand what was happening, what had happened  to them, you know I was 9 years old, 10 years old there is no way you can grasp  the enormity of what had happened to them and what had happened to the Jewish  community. So as you go on you have to learn and you have to stomach it. My  mother had a number on her arm, and my father had a number on his arm too. I am  very lucky I have a picture of my family because my mother before she passed us  to Madame Millar, there was the gentleman that worked in the police station that  was friends with our family, she gave him our pictures, our family pictures and  she gave him whatever jewelry she had. He kept them until after the war, and  when my mother came back he gave it to her, so I am one of the few people that  has pictures, I have mementos after she passed on and I have them. Not all of  them my sister has some too. I have a picture of me as a baby, as a young girl.  Any more questions? Yes?    Question: What happened to Madame Millar?    Zaveduk: What happened to Madame Millar? Well, we came back to live in Paris,  (Inaudible). I remember one day Madame Millar came to visit us in Paris, it was  a very awkward situation, because we wanted to run to her, I wanted to run to  her and hug her and kiss her but at the same time I had heard the story that my  mother and father had talked about and I knew how much they had suffered so we  stayed there, we didn&amp;#039 ; t do anything, my sister and I we stayed there like two  logs and she stayed there for maybe an hour and she went away and I never saw  her or heard about her again. Also my mother wanted me, wanted us to forget her.  So the first thing, don&amp;#039 ; t think about it, it&amp;#039 ; s over, it didn&amp;#039 ; t happened,  whatever happened it&amp;#039 ; s over. And this had happened to most of the survivors,  people didn&amp;#039 ; t want them to talk, people didn&amp;#039 ; t want them to hear their stories,  they were too painful, even if they needed to talk about their experiences but  people wouldn&amp;#039 ; t let them so they just shut up about it and I guess they did talk  after, my parents did talk about it, and I did the same I guess. Because about  20 years ago in my synagogue they had asked me &amp;quot ; oh you come from Europe, and  then moved to Argentina you must have tremendous memories.&amp;quot ;  But I never talked  about it ever and I said no, and they said why not. There was a service, once a  year there was a service, inaudible. Instead of a sermon a lady would come and  tell her story, the subject that night was how was your youth, so one lady  talked about remembering being with her grandparents and all of that and I said  I will talk, and this is really the first time I talked about it, I had never  said anything. My husband knew my father and mother were in a concentration  camp, he knew what he knew but I never talked about it. So that speech I asked  my son to type it for me on the computer, in a special way you know double space  so I can read it, and he did it for me very pleasantly no problem, and after,  you know a few weeks later, I said &amp;quot ; Nick what did you think about my speech?&amp;quot ;   and he said yeah it was ok and I said do you have any questions? He said mother,  I know there was always a line, an invisible line that we knew we couldn&amp;#039 ; t  cross. And is aid but that&amp;#039 ; s not true and he said but that&amp;#039 ; s what you did. And I  must have shut it out much closed shut because my son never asked, never asked  me about it. Inaudible. Anymore questions?    Question: Have you ever read the book Yellow Star?    Zaveduk: Read who?    Question: Read the book Yellow Star?    Zaveduk: Yes. Are you reading it? Have you read it? I am going to tell you a  story because you are very special. When my father was liberated by the  Russians, so because he was a citizen of France he was sent back to France,  immediately, most of the people, there were 3000 people that survived  concentration camps that were liberated had no country to go back to, so they  went to DP camps, displaced persons camps, so my father went to Paris and that&amp;#039 ; s  where he looked for us, and by the way he found out where we were because my  mother had given the address to the gentleman who kept the pictures, so incase  my father came looking for us he could know where we were. That&amp;#039 ; s how he found  us. My mother was liberated a little bit later and she was taken by the Red  Cross, some of the ladies were taken to Denmark and some to Sweden. And they  were there for about 3 months because they were very sick. So they were feeding  them and given new clothes and they were kept in the hospital for about a month,  and after that they were sent to families, and then when they were ready to go  back to Paris the king of Sweden said to them, does anyone remember his name?  Wasn&amp;#039 ; t his name Christian? It was. And all the ladies wanted a souvenir, you  know what a souvenir is? So he pulled off the buttons of his vest and gave all  of them a button, he took the --, you know the things they were on the  shoulders/ he took that and gave it to another lady. But my mother still was  there and he had nothing left to give her, because he couldn&amp;#039 ; t take off his  jacket, and he had a little pin on his vest, and before you leave today come see  it, so when you read the book you can envision it. (Inaudible)    Question: Why did the, why did Madame turn your mother in but still keep you?    Zaveduk: Well Madame Millar did not want to turn her into the Germans, she  turned her into the French, she wanted her to get back to Paris, and she wanted  to give her the chance to find another place for us, because she was counting on  the money from us and my mother 2 weeks later was taken away.    Question: is she a righteous gentile?    Zaveduk: I don&amp;#039 ; t know. (Inaudible) To me she was one. Those are the people that  helped Jews survive. I went to France again 17 years ago, for the first time, I  didn&amp;#039 ; t want to go before because I was afraid. And we rented a car (inaudible).  I knew where the school was, I knew where the church was, it was like being back  home. There was no one in the house where we lived because it was a small street  and there were two homes, one on one side, and one of the right, and the  newspaper of the town was using the house where we lived as a storage space,  there were very nice, they even let us in. Things had changed inside, but the  wallpaper, the windows, the floor, it was still the same. It was very eerie to  be in, it was very strange it felt like a ghost was walking with me. Then we  decided to go to the school, the school is a very small school and the director  of the school talked with us for about 10 minutes and then said you know I have  to go back and teach can you come back after school? So we came back after  school and he showed us books, but only the boy&amp;#039 ; s books because there were  girl&amp;#039 ; s books and there were boy&amp;#039 ; s books, we were not together, there was girl&amp;#039 ; s  school there was boy school. The girl&amp;#039 ; s books were lost so he showed us the  boy&amp;#039 ; s books of that time. And my husband goes how come you have them here so  handy? And he said someone came in about 6 months ago looking for them and he  kept the books out right there in his room. So we ask him about Millar, Madame  Millar and he said well she passed away but her daughter lives here if you want  I will take you to her. We had rented a car so that we can go and he can show us  where her daughter of Madame Millar lives. It&amp;#039 ; s a small broken down house, he  went in and knocked on the door, she came to the door and she looked at him.  Because in a small town the director of the school has certain responsibilities  and he said to her in French there is someone here would like to talk to you  about when you were a little girl. So she looked at my husband and she looked at  me and she said in French -- oh my god, who are you Adele or --. So I looked at  her and I said I am Adele and she said please come in, she never invited my  husband in so he had to wait on this courtyard. I went in and her family was  there, her husband was out of work -- I mean a very unstable family but there&amp;#039 ; s  no need for me to talk about that. But we talk a little bit, she told me about  her mother and her grandmother, brother and sister, she told me about her life,  she was not too curious about mine but I live in America, I was a rich American.  So that night when we went back to the hotel, it was a small town but we went  back, and when we got there I cried, I cried and cried, and my husband was very  understanding, I kept thinking what would have happened to us if our parents  wouldn&amp;#039 ; t have come back, would we be in the same financial level, or uneducated  level that these people were? Or we different than they we were, or were they  different than us, we were all together. And some time later I received a letter  from her and she wrote to me, her situation was very sad, so I sent money, I  went back 2 years later with my sister, and my niece to meet them, and I gave  them cash, I gave them $500 that day, but then she kept asking for more, and my  husband said you know Adele you are not responsible for them, you cannot take on  the mission of maintaining them, they are all able bodied. And I realized he was  right. So I never -- because I was not --. They saved my life, they saved my  sisters life, but she didn&amp;#039 ; t, her grandmother did. And I understand the little  boy that lived with us for about a year, year and half, also came to town,  before I did, looking for some -- but he lives in France. Any more questions?    Question: First of all thank you, but being a survivor of the situation and the  hysteria and that&amp;#039 ; s why you left, but have you ever experienced that again, or  thought history is repeating itself again, or that this could happen again to my  people or other people?    Zaveduk: Yes. It happened in Wisconsin, a very long, 35 years ago.    Question: Did your family teach you Hebrew and Yiddish growing up?    Zaveduk: No. (inaudible)    Question: the other people that have spoken to us have said that there are 2 or  3 things that are most important to them that people should remember in order to  live better ways, such as ways as    Answer: Accepting people for what they are, for who they are, and what they can  bring. We all believe in somebody of a higher power than us. And who we call it  is not important, to me the most important thing is to be a good human being.  Respect each other, avoid hurting each other, and sadly enough when you look at  the news it&amp;#039 ; s happening out there. . It&amp;#039 ; s happening in Europe, it&amp;#039 ; s happening  everywhere, it&amp;#039 ; s sad. It&amp;#039 ; s very very sad. And that&amp;#039 ; s why I go to schools, I  don&amp;#039 ; t do it for -- there is no reason for me to come here to talk, to explain  what happened to me, but maybe if I can enrich one child, 2 child, that later on  they will remember what I said to them , and they will know the difference of  right and wrong.    Question: (Inaudible)    Zaveduk: Yes in Denmark, yes they did. And they were the only country that  really helped. So yes he did.    Question: Do you miss France?    Zaveduk: No, the United States is my country, but I go back there.    Question: (Inaudible)    Zaveduk: (Inaudible)    Question: Were you angry at the French when you found out they collaborated?    Answer: Yeah, it wasn&amp;#039 ; t too long ago that the French president finally  recognized what the French did to the Jews. This was 2 years ago, last year, and  until then they didn&amp;#039 ; t feel like they did anything wrong. They felt they were  victims too, and they were, they were not taken away and killed just because  they were French. They took away the French because they were French-Jews. The  French and Jews were living in France for hundreds of years. It&amp;#039 ; s amazing what  the power of one person can do. And the fear that that man put everybody in is  just awful. Because when children have to deport their parents and parents have  to deport their children, because you said something about freedom, because you  said something about the government, because you said something and the children  heard that the children would go to school and tell the Germans and the Germans  would come and take the parents to prison. That&amp;#039 ; s fear, that&amp;#039 ; s (inaudible).  That&amp;#039 ; s fear, that&amp;#039 ; s not because I don&amp;#039 ; t like you, or I don&amp;#039 ; t want you around me  because you&amp;#039 ; ve got hair or you&amp;#039 ; ve got glasses, that&amp;#039 ; s absurd. That&amp;#039 ; s the  impression but it&amp;#039 ; s amazing that one person can do that over millions. I hope  that never happens again.    Question: I&amp;#039 ; m just curious, you went to college in Buenos Aries?    Zaveduk: I went to school in Buenos Aries.    Question: And what did you study?    Zaveduk: I did my high school there    Question: Oh ok, did you go on to    Zaveduk: No I didn&amp;#039 ; t go on.    Question: And how many children do you have?    Zaveduk: I have two sons. One was born in Buenos Aries and one was born here.    Question: and how old are they?    Zaveduk: Oh my god. One is 50 and one is 40. I hate to tell you but this year  they will be 41 and 51. I have 2 granddaughters.    Vopat: Thank you very much. Adele has some documents she wants to show us.    Adele: These are the documents the Germans had, I have a book at home, I cannot  carry it because it&amp;#039 ; s too heavy but (inaudible) now this one, is in French, it&amp;#039 ; s  about convoy 46 it left Paris February 9th, 1943 and arrived at Auschwitz  February 11. They kind of describe what happened, who went there, but that last  paragraph was really, was really what pushed me to become a speaker for the  museum. They arrived at Auschwitz on February 11th, 1943, there were hundreds of  people in the convoy, cattle trains, no food, no water, no wash rooms no  nothing. They were packed like sardines. Half of them were dead when they  arrived. Out of those thousand people, 77 men and 92 women were selected to  survive. All of the other ones were sent to the gas chamber immediately. They  women were tattooed number 32469-35459. My mother&amp;#039 ; s number on her arm, I didn&amp;#039 ; t  make a picture of it, her number was 34022. She had a number here. When I saw  that it was like a (inaudible). At the end of the war 1945 only 21 people had  survived out of 1000. 7 of them were women, one of them was my mother. It&amp;#039 ; s amazing.       The Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from the University of Wisconsin - Parkside Archives and Area Research Center. 0 UWPMC018_Zaveduk_2004.xml UWPMC018_Zaveduk_2004.xml      </text>
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              <text>    5.4      George Kennedy Presentation, 2007   56:36 UWP Manuscript Collection 018 Carole Gottlieb Vopat Holocaust Survivor Speaker Series UWPMC018 Carole Gottlieb Vopat Holocaust Survivor Speaker Series University of Wisconsin - Parkside Archives &amp;amp ;  Area Research Center    Holocaust Hungary Genocide George Kennedy mp4 UWPMC018_Kennedy_2007.mp4 1:|9(2)|15(11)|23(5)|31(4)|39(1)|48(2)|55(11)|62(3)|69(7)|77(1)|85(14)|93(5)|101(6)|107(12)|116(3)|123(10)|130(15)|137(11)|145(8)|154(1)|161(13)|169(1)|178(6)|187(10)|195(12)|204(8)|212(5)|218(17)|229(2)|238(8)|246(13)|254(3)|264(1)|271(10)|278(14)|287(6)|297(13)|304(1)|314(4)|320(7)|330(5)|337(12)|346(4)|354(2)|362(1)|371(6)|378(10)|384(12)|393(1)|403(2)|414(5)|422(10)|429(9)|437(12)|445(11)|462(9)     0      Kaltura         video  &amp;lt ; iframe id=&amp;quot ; kaltura_player&amp;quot ;  src=&amp;quot ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/2370711/sp/237071100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/42909941/partner_id/2370711?iframeembed=true&amp;amp ; playerId=kaltura_player&amp;amp ; entry_id=1_uqkcilee&amp;amp ; flashvars[streamerType]=auto&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&amp;amp ; amp ; &amp;amp ; wid=1_5ejfggaf&amp;quot ;  width=&amp;quot ; 608&amp;quot ;  height=&amp;quot ; 342&amp;quot ;  allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=&amp;quot ; autoplay * ;  fullscreen * ;  encrypted-media *&amp;quot ;  sandbox=&amp;quot ; allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation&amp;quot ;  frameborder=&amp;quot ; 0&amp;quot ;  title=&amp;quot ; Kaltura Player&amp;quot ; &amp;gt ; &amp;lt ; /iframe&amp;gt ;  English     363 Changes after Hitler’s Rise to Power   We were comfortable there, we lived well, we spoke Hungarian, I still don’t speak Yiddish. Hungarians who lived in the basic part of Hungary spoke Hungarian, period. Occasionally in school we learned German, we learned many other languages, which is different than American schools.   Kennedy talks about his experiences during Hitler’s rise to power and his views as both a Hungarian and a Jew.                               821 Invasion of Hungary and Life in Labor Camps   Eventually the Germans felt that Hungary wasn’t doing everything the Germans wanted, they didn’t give food enough to support the German cause, so on March 19th 1944, and Germany invaded occupied Hungary. All in less than one day, there was no fight, Hungarians were out there with flowers to see the German conquerors, German soldiers.   Kennedy recalls his time as a prisoner of the Germans and the conditions and hardships he and his fellow prisoners faced.                               1652 Freedom   The next day a Russian soldier sauntered to the area where we were. I turned to my buddy and I said Sam it looks like were free, let’s go eat. Looked to the sun, Budapest was east of there, and we started walking. And two weeks we walked in. When we got there I saw a Russian soldier and I asked him for something to eat. He went back to his unit and came back with a piece of lard.    Kennedy tells of how he was freed by the Russians, his journey home, and life after the war.                               2227 Question and Answer   Question: So you were captured for how long? Answer: Exactly one year. I was taken April 17, the week of the 17th 1944-1945 that was another thing that I only managed to be in for a year.   Kennedy answers questions about his life and his experiences during the Holocaust.                               Oral History George Kennedy, Holocaust survivor from Hungary, shares his experiences before, during, and after the Holocaust.  George Kennedy: I was very glad to be asked to talk about the subject of the  Holocaust, in a way it&amp;#039 ; s almost my anniversary. Yesterday was the 60th year that  I was taken by the Nazi&amp;#039 ; s. ---    Before I start talking about what happened to me, let me talk to you about the  country of Hungary, I don&amp;#039 ; t know how much, how familiar you are with it. Can you  hear me? Ok good. Hungary is a small country approximately the size of Indiana,  population depending on who won that years&amp;#039 ;  war, depending on what part they  took back, or gave to Hungary. Its size and population changed through the  years. There was a Hungary before the First World War, it ended in 1919-1920,  the war ended in 1919 and the treaty was in 1920 by the name of Versailles. Near  Versailles was a small town called Trianon, and that was a Hungarian peace  treaty. That took part of Hungary away, took the top part by Czechoslovakia, the  east part by Romania, another small part to Yugoslavia and a part to the west to  Austria. So Hungary&amp;#039 ; s size changed, and therefore the population changed. Hitler  gave part of Czechoslovakia and part of Romania to Hungary ;  Hitler got something  for it in return. The population that came from the Czech area mostly the  northeast part of Hungary near Galicia there were very many Jews, a big  predominance of Jews. Generally Hungary was 60% Catholic, Roman Catholic, about  30% Protestant, and the remainder were Jews and a few Muslims, not too many of them.    During the height of Hungary, Hungary had approximately one million Jews, that&amp;#039 ; s  a lot of Jews for one small country. I was one of them, my parents were one of  them, my grandparents, we were Hungarians. We considered ourselves Hungarian,  whose religion happened to be Jewish. We were not Jews, we were Hungarians whose  religion was Jewish. There is a difference. We lived well. We were middle class  people, my father worked for the Budapest Transit Authority, he worked in an  office. I don&amp;#039 ; t know if you are familiar with Milwaukee transit or Chicago  transit authority, but it was similar with the Budapest Transit Authority. He  worked there for 30 years. All his coworkers were Christian, they were very good  people, very friendly people. I remember going into his office, I learned how to  type, I saw the first adding machine there, it wasn&amp;#039 ; t like todays adding  machines and calculators, it was a machine that you pull down the levers, and  you moved over and that&amp;#039 ; s how you did multiplications. It was a lot of fun to go  there, to visit my father. His coworkers said when things started getting really  bad, they said &amp;quot ; Don&amp;#039 ; t worry, we will protect you. You&amp;#039 ; re our friends, we will  take care of it, don&amp;#039 ; t worry that you are Jewish&amp;quot ; . Hungary cooperated with  Germany, Hungary provided for Germany, meat, bread, agricultural byproducts and  Germany in return gave protection to Hungary in machinery. It was a good  cooperation that was going on. This was going on in the 1930&amp;#039 ; s, were still  talking about the 1930&amp;#039 ; s.    In 1933 when Hitler came to power, (unintelligible). There were difficulties in  the office, Jews were demoted. But at the same time when I talk to my friends  they ask me &amp;quot ; was there any thought of us leaving Hungary?&amp;quot ;  No. Absolutely not,  there was no discussion, no talk, no thinking about leaving Hungary. We were  comfortable there, we lived well, we spoke Hungarian, I still don&amp;#039 ; t speak  Yiddish. Hungarians who lived in the basic part of Hungary spoke Hungarian,  period. Occasionally in school we learned German, we learned many other  languages, which is different than American schools. In High School, we had  Hungarian, German, Latvian, English, we had Italian, and we had Greek, not  Hebrew, not Yiddish, not Jewish. That was religious. We had a class just how you  have literature and you have geography and you have gym, we also had a class  called religion. I went to a Jewish school ;  I think there were one or two  non-Jews among my classmates, the rest of us were all Jewish. In the 1930&amp;#039 ; s when  Hitler came to power, that&amp;#039 ; s when things got bad. First they brought Hungarian  Jewish laws, that meant they were limiting Jewish participation, in any  business, in any culture, any culture, education, and culture was very low so  that didn&amp;#039 ; t affect us too much, university did not accept Jewish enrollment. If  you were a Jew you could difficultly, get into a class occasionally, but not  regularly, you couldn&amp;#039 ; t become a doctor, you couldn&amp;#039 ; t become an engineer, an  architect, a librarian. They accepted a few to become teachers, they accepted a  few to become lawyers. I wanted always to become an engineer, my father wanted  me to become an engineer and I wanted to be an engineer. But you couldn&amp;#039 ; t get  into engineering school because we were Jewish. There were signs on streets, in  front of restaurants and other establishments, signs that said dogs and Jews not  welcome. You notice dogs got first billing. They brought a law that you have to  prove that you lived in Hungary, or your parents lived in Hungary, paid taxes  100 years before. Just think of yourselves, this is 2007. How many of you could  prove with papers that your ancestors paid taxes in 1907? I think a number of  you would fail. So what they did if you couldn&amp;#039 ; t prove it, you weren&amp;#039 ; t Hungarian  and you lost your citizenship. (Unintelligable) and to live in a country you&amp;#039 ; re  not a citizen of is very uncomfortable. There were lawsuits. One of the most  famous lawsuits was the Blood Libel suit. He said that, I don&amp;#039 ; t know if you know  that we call Easter Passover but we eat unleavened bread, it is a flat bread  that is cooked like a cracker, you may have seen it, I don&amp;#039 ; t know, it&amp;#039 ; s called  Matzo. And they said that Jews are making matzo by capturing Christian children,  killing them, and using their blood to make the matzo. They took that so  seriously that there was a lawsuit. There was a family that lost their child,  took the Jew to court and said that the Jew took this kid, killed him and used  his blood to make Matzo. And people believed this.    They exiled Jews out of any kind of public life. But we still lived because this  was our country, we lived there, we were Hungarians. We would think this was  just a temporary thing, things would change later on. Hitler is a passing fancy,  it will go away and things will be right again. It didn&amp;#039 ; t. 1939 came, as you  probably know World War 2 broke out September 1, 1939. I was in our apartment,  we lived in an apartment building, and we had a small apartment. I was playing  chess with a friend of mine and I heard the radio in the other room saying that  war broke out, Germany invaded Poland. I continued playing chess, saying your  move, it didn&amp;#039 ; t really affect me, it wasn&amp;#039 ; t going to affect me, it was in a  place far away, but it really wasn&amp;#039 ; t that far away, but I thought it was far  away it could not affect me. It actually affected my whole life, my whole  family&amp;#039 ; s life. Going back a little bit too where we were before, I mentioned  that we were really blessed people. We vacationed, probably because my father  was working for a transportation company, conducting these, you paid less for  transportation these ways, boats, and we visited all surrounding countries. I  had a small rowboat and we&amp;#039 ; d go out with the guys to the Danube river rowing. We  lived a very nice comfortable life. But all that changed 1939, September.    Eventually the Germans felt that Hungary wasn&amp;#039 ; t doing everything the Germans  wanted, they didn&amp;#039 ; t give food enough to support the German cause, so on March  19th 1944, and Germany invaded occupied Hungary. All in less than one day, there  was no fight, Hungarians were out there with flowers to see the German  conquerors, German soldiers. They were very happy about it. Shortly the attitude  of the Hungarians towards the Jews was, I was in Hungary visiting a friend of  mine about 30 years ago, I haven&amp;#039 ; t been back since. My friend was driving a car,  I was in the car, we had a small hit with another car, we didn&amp;#039 ; t get hurt, the  car didn&amp;#039 ; t get hurt, it was a small bump, the guy got out of his car, my friend  got out, the other guy got out, they examined and saw there was nothing wrong  with the car, and the guy returned to my friend and he said &amp;quot ; You dirty Jew&amp;quot ;  -- inaudible.    To begin with the Hungarian language is a barrier to any kind of communication.  That language, I don&amp;#039 ; t know if you&amp;#039 ; re familiar with it, it comes from a  Finnish-Yugo Language group. I&amp;#039 ; m jumping back and forth. Hungarians moved to the  present day Hungary from way beyond the Ural Mountains, the Ural mountains are  in Prussia, it&amp;#039 ; s sort of the divider between Asia and Europe. And the people  started moving west. And eventually separated into 3 groups. One group in the  North became the Fins, one group went south and became the Turks and one group  went across the Carpathian Mountains became the Magyar. In 896 they crossed the  Carpathian Mountains and occupied the area inside, and that became Hungary. But  that language was so different than any other language that it separated them  from the rest of Europe just like the Alps separate Switzerland from the rest of  Europe. It gave protection and don&amp;#039 ; t need the outside to those mountains. So the  Hungarians moved naturally, and Hitler wanted to occupy all of Europe.    Going back to 1944, we were talking about this previous area more, not as much  as we want to be to concentrate on what happened during the war. March &amp;#039 ; 44  Germany occupied Hungary, a few weeks later I was ordered into a labor camp, and  this was April 7th 1944, and they said just bring the clothing you have on you,  bring food for just 3 days, I don&amp;#039 ; t know how they picked that. And come in --/  and the 3 days lasted the rest of the war, the clothing I was wearing had to  last the rest of the year, the rest of the war. Eventually we did some work,  building roads, digging ditches, after a while the work we did was really  meaningless, they told us to dig a ditch here, move the dirt to the left, then  move the dirt back into the ditch, they were just making work, it wasn&amp;#039 ; t really  necessary. After a while they took us into the Carpathian Mountains and the work  became a little bit worse. We were cutting down hundreds of feet high trees and  cutting them down and laying them on the road next to each other and making easy  driving areas for the German tanks. We were working from 4 in the morning until  10 at night. At that point you have to stand in formation, at attention like  this, they counted us left to right, right to left and there was nowhere and  those number never came out right. So we just had to stand like that for hours  and if you couldn&amp;#039 ; t stand like this for a couple of hours and you collapsed you  were either beaten or sometimes you were shot.    The food at that point was at that point a cup or black soup, a cup of coffee,  and a piece of black bread. The bread was so small that they gave it to one guy  and said this is for the 4 of you, you divide it. It was a small piece of bread,  soup and coffee. We were doing that for a while up in the Carpathians, no  shelter, no roof over our heads, no extra clothing except the ones we came in,  my shoes lost their sole, not lost but worn out. And we were poor. I remember  August 13, 1944, a day I&amp;#039 ; ll never forget, there was frost on the ground, in  August. There was one day, I don&amp;#039 ; t know why but he decided on me, and he said  Jew you see that bridge over there? And I said yes sir, and he said well if the  Russians move the front we have to move further west, and we will put your whole  god damn group on top of that bridge and blow up the bridge together with you.  Sometimes I get the question &amp;quot ; Did you try to escape?&amp;quot ;  Just think to yourself.  You&amp;#039 ; re in Wisconsin. Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Michigan they all have the  same feelings towards you as Wisconsin, where are you going to go? There was no  place to go to, because all the surrounding countries around Hungary were of the  same feeling, under Hitler&amp;#039 ; s thumb, as Hungary was, so there&amp;#039 ; s no place to go.  Besides it was impossible to escape. One day in spite of all that I attempted  to. I went into a farmers house, I went up the second floor into the hay loft,  and I hid in the hay, and I looked out and saw the farmer go to the Nazi and say  there&amp;#039 ; s a Jew up there, catch him. Hearing this I got out and started running  towards the mountains and I got caught, and the soldier led me to a ditch, stuck  his rifle into my stomach and said Jew, jump. That saved me later on because I  fell into the ditch. Somebody up there, wherever that is, protected me, because  another higher ranking officer came over, told the solider to go away that  there&amp;#039 ; s more important things than just killing one Jew. And like that I crawled  out and rejoined my buddies.    As I mentioned it was very cold out there, we decided that there were 6 of us  together, and 3 would lay together underground in the mud, and then lay on top  of it, and the guys underground would get a little bit warm, and then we rotated  every hour or so, so different guys got the warmth too. I keep saying guys  because we were only male. Girls, women were someplace else, I don&amp;#039 ; t know, we  were only men.    After a while I was taken to a brick kiln on the Austrian border. A brick kiln  is a round building with a furnace in the middle, and space underneath where  they dig the clay, and they threw it on the furnace, it dries out and make a  bricks out of it? This time there were no bricks there, there were Jews there.  We were lined shoulder to shoulder all the way around, a guy touching me on both  sides. On the one side of me was an engineer. He died one night, I couldn&amp;#039 ; t  report his death because this way we got his soup the next day. I had two days  of soup. We all got sick. We got typhoid fever, we had lice all over. We didn&amp;#039 ; t  have food, we didn&amp;#039 ; t have medication, and we didn&amp;#039 ; t have doctors. Many of them  died. But at that point we didn&amp;#039 ; t really do much work, the only work was burying  our buddies who died in the night. One day I was selected for that role, and  this was very good because at least then I got out of that horrible hell hole.  Dark, dismal, cold, full of lice, full of sick people. The next job was digging  the big ditch, taking the dead ones and heaving them in, poor lime on top of  them, then another layer of dead people, then another layer of lime. I remember  one day when I was doing this, I don&amp;#039 ; t really remember the circumstances, I got  a green apple from somebody, I didn&amp;#039 ; t want, that apple was the perfect fruit, I  didn&amp;#039 ; t want them to take it away from me, so I went into the grave, laid down  next to a dead one and I ate my green apple.    There was one kid with us, he was maybe 14 years old, and he carried with him,  under his hat a cigar box, and somebody asked him what is in the box, and he  wouldn&amp;#039 ; t tell him. One day he said come here I&amp;#039 ; ll show you what&amp;#039 ; s in the box, so  I go over and he opens the box and there were 6 or 8 pieces of I don&amp;#039 ; t really  know what, pieces of something in the box. I said what are those? He said those  are my toes, they froze off during the weather, I broke them off and I hope that  after the war somebody will be able to reattach them. This is the example of the  mental condition that one gets. Many people died, I didn&amp;#039 ; t. I wasn&amp;#039 ; t stronger  than the rest, I was luckier.    Anyway this went on until the beginning of 1945 up to March of &amp;#039 ; 45. Then one day  there were fights outside, airplanes and tanks going up and down, like a  marvelous war movie but we were a part of it, when the bombs were falling we  were in there. When it quieted down, the guards disappeared. The rest of the day  nothing happened. The next day a Russian soldier sauntered to the area where we  were. I turned to my buddy and I said Sam it looks like were free, let&amp;#039 ; s go eat.  Looked to the sun, Budapest was east of there, and we started walking. And two  weeks we walked in. When we got there I saw a Russian soldier and I asked him  for something to eat. He went back to his unit and came back with a piece of  lard. I don&amp;#039 ; t know if you know about lard, it&amp;#039 ; s a piece of fat, solid fat, no  meat on it, just solid fat, which is terrible for somebody who didn&amp;#039 ; t eat decent  food for a year. We got to the field, pulled out turnips, we ate this solid fat  and the turnips.    The first night we got into a deserted house, as we slept in the middle of the  night there was a knocking and hitting the door. I got up and there was a  Russian soldier there, and he talked and I got up and said I don&amp;#039 ; t speak  Russian. He shoved his weapon and all of a sudden there stood another Russian at  the door, and he started jabbering something I don&amp;#039 ; t know what he said. But at  one point he did like this, and automatically I put my hand up to block his hit.  Then he left, he was gone. And he hurt me, I took my shirt off there is a cut  there on my hand, he knifed me. I&amp;#039 ; m saying this story, to tell you that those  Russians, one was good, gave me food, the other one knifes me on the same day.  They were all over. They were Cossacks by the way. Cossacks.    Anyway, I walked home with this fellow, in two weeks. I&amp;#039 ; ll go back to that point  later on. First I want to talk about my father, I was an only child. My father  and mother were home when I was taken. After a while they came into the  apartment building, the Nazis, and they said, all men downstairs. All men  including kids who were 6 years old, and some who were 80 years old. And they  took every one of them including my father. My father was 52 years old. They  marched him toward Germany, the last we knew of him when he crossed the border  out of Germany, we never found out what happened to him. He was 52. My mother  not much after that was taken to the Budapest ghetto. I don&amp;#039 ; t remember much to  describe but I&amp;#039 ; ll describe to you what the ghetto is. The whole city at the  beginning had lots and lots of Jews. Several hundred thousand Jews. There were  many Jews living in Budapest. And they take all the Jews that live in the whole  city and they squeezed them into an area of 3-4 square blocks. They put the  fences, walls, across the street, so there was no in and out movement from the  ghetto. They were all in one small, small area, only about 3-4 blocks in size.  My mother lived in a room, not in a house, but one room. A lot of you have  bedrooms at home. 28 people. There was a bucket in the corner, there was no  medicine, no doctors ;  I don&amp;#039 ; t know how they got food. And the war was going on  outside, and she lived in that, and obviously many people died. And that made  room to move someone else in there, and they got very, very sick.    My mother survived that but she became very, very sick after. So going back to  when I came home, I found my mother, and her first words to me were God kept me  alive so someone should tell you what happened during this last year. We talked,  we talked, she told her story, and I told my story. And she died before we  finished telling all the stories, she was 49 years old. So my parents, I lost my  father at age 52, my mother at 49. I was lucky in age, I was 20 at that time.  Which at that age, I was tough enough, I was adult enough, I wasn&amp;#039 ; t too old to  do what was expected to survive. My grandparents lived in a suburb of Budapest,  many of my aunts, uncles, cousins, so forth lived there. In 1944 they moved them  into a ghetto, the next day they moved them with railroad cars to Auschwitz. I  sure you have all heard of the name Auschwitz, it&amp;#039 ; s a town in Poland with  well-known extermination camps. The railroad cars they moved them in had signs  on it, for 8 horses or 40 men. Well the Germans put 100 Jews into that railroad  car. No sanitary, no food, no facilities, other than they couldn&amp;#039 ; t even sit  down, they had to be standing like that, sometimes it would be 3 or 4 days. They  arrived at Auschwitz, the next day they gassed them, and up they went the chimney.    After the war I drew up a family tree of ours, that has uncles, aunts, cousins,  parents, grandparents, everybody on it, there were over 100 names of family, of  those over 100 names, my cousin survived, my uncle, and I. Three. People will  say there was no holocaust, my family, then what happened to those people? By  the way, the cousin that survived after the war, he tried to leave Hungary to go  any place, and he said I looked at the map what was farthest away from Europe,  farthest away from Hungary, it was Australia. He still lives in Sydney. The  uncle who survived, moved to England, he has since died, so right now the only  survivors are my cousin in Sydney and I.    I came home and the next day went to the university but I wasn&amp;#039 ; t accepted  because of being a Jew before the war. It&amp;#039 ; s sad, sometimes they ask me &amp;quot ; How did  you survive?&amp;quot ;  &amp;quot ; Why?&amp;quot ;  I could tell you all kinds of stories, it&amp;#039 ; s one word, luck.  I was lucky, I was luckier than many of the others. I could sit here and talk  but I would like to answer some questions that you probably do have about this  period. Anybody?    Question: Can you describe what was life like with um the other people you were  with, were there friendships that were made or was it every person fought for  survival or was it anything like.    Answer: Yes, we a decided a group, have any of you seen the movie Band of  Brothers (unintelligible). Because 3 friends of mine decided when we went in  that we were going to be a band of brothers. We shared everything together, the  4 of us were very lucky. All four of us survived. One of them is an orthopedic  surgeon in Hungary, retired, one is an architect in Hungary, I, and one became a  judge, first he went to Israel, he joined the army, fought in 4 wars, became a  judge in the court, became a very high ranking judge in Israel. Since he died,  he died has nothing to do with the holocaust. As far as everybody for  themselves, I would say we were very cooperative with each other, help each  other, there were so fights obviously but we tried to help each other pretty  much. Maybe not as how our 4 friends did but everybody had, I remember there was  one guy who before the war was a barber, he came with his barber tools and he  cut our hair and shaved our faces, and everyone contributed what they could to  make our existence a little bit easier, than it would be without it. So that was  good. Obviously there were arguments, like there are amongst you that sometimes  you want to give someone a piece of who you are. Just argue with not fight.    Question: So you were captured for how long?    Answer: Exactly one year. I was taken April 17, the week of the 17th 1944-1945  that was another thing that I only managed to be in for a year. Many Polish Jews  were in for 3-4 years. And going back to the previous question, those Polish  Jews were pretty rough on our Jews because they said we didn&amp;#039 ; t suffer for years  like they did, you had your theaters, you had your booze, you were vacationing,  you lived well while we were in captivity. And they were not on the -- as our  captives. There were incident like that but generally I would say there was --  nature with each other. Anyone else?    Question: How do you keep hope alive in such difficult circumstances?    Answer: Very good question. When I was taken away my parents were at home, my  grandparents were home, my uncles, aunts were at home. I was the first one to be  taken away. So as far as I was concerned I had a whole family at home, I must  survive. I said the Buda gets me, that&amp;#039 ; s the best I can do, but I must do my  best to survive. I had to come back to a big family so that kind of helped my  survival. On the other hand when my father was taken away, I don&amp;#039 ; t know anything  about it, but I&amp;#039 ; m picturing it in my mind, his only son was taken, I remember  the last dinner we had before I was taken, and my father said I raised my child  and now I might have enjoyment with him, not from him but with him. I was 20.  They take him away from me. But I also heard from my mother when I was taken,  came home from the apartment to live there and she snuck after me and saw as her  only son was taken away. So I suppose my parents were sure, their joy, their  son, I&amp;#039 ; m not sure that I was a joy but, that joy, that hope was taken away from  them. So I&amp;#039 ; m sure that the hope that that was was that I had a family to go home to.    Question: When did you come to the U.S. and what was your first impression of it?    Answer: It was nothing, nothing, all truth. I mentioned that I came home. I got  a question, I have been talking to a lot of Chicago area inner city schools. One  kind one day asked me, have you thought of revenge when you got out? And my  answer was yes, but I didn&amp;#039 ; t do anything about it because my future was more  important than any revenge. I remember one day I saw my suit, I had this big  funny what they called a Zoot Suit, cuffs on the side, one day I saw this suit  on somebody on the other side of the street, probably took it from my house. I  swallowed and I kept on walked. I came home one day, the next day I went to the  university to register as an engineering student, something I was not able to do  before the war because I was a Jew. I went to university, studied engineering  and one day I was given the opportunity to apply for it and ended up getting a  scholarship to the United States, through an organization you may have heard the  name the -- foundation. It&amp;#039 ; s a Jewish organization it gave scholarships to  students who were studying in university, that were good students, good records,  and they received scholarships, I got one of them. My friends applied for it, he  didn&amp;#039 ; t get it, and I got it. Anyway the scholarship brought me out in 1947. At  Texas A&amp;amp ; M. I graduated from there in civil engineering specializing in  structures and structural engineer, then I applied for another scholarship to, I  applied to 3 schools in Wisconsin, Michigan and California for master work. And  I decided that whoever accept me first, I go there. Wisconsin was it. I went to  Madison, I got my master&amp;#039 ; s degree there and from there I got a job offer in  Chicago at a large architectural engineering firm. I came back in &amp;#039 ; 55 and  started my own company, it&amp;#039 ; s still in existence in Chicago right now.    Question: You had said that one of the times, 30 years ago you had gone back  Hungary you encountered some, people, a person that -- are there times since  you&amp;#039 ; ve gone back that you experience this -- or has it declined.    Answer: My family described this, during the communists, the communist rule of  Hungary, it was illegal to be openly anti-Semitic in Hungary. Since the  communists, people are allowed to be openly anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitism was  always there, they during the communist years couldn&amp;#039 ; t say it allowed but they  were still anti-Semitic, as today. I remember seeing advertising posters when I  was a little kid, a poster showed a barrel with holes in and blood coming out of  the hole, the caption was &amp;quot ; This is Christian God that Jews killed and they put  into a barrel and this is his blood flowing out of the barrel&amp;quot ; . The terrible  thing is this poster existed and people saw and they said well there must be  something to it, they wouldn&amp;#039 ; t say it. Propaganda minister of Germany, Goebbels,  said &amp;quot ; if you say something loud and often enough people will believe it&amp;quot ; . Where  there is smoke there is fire. Obviously there wasn&amp;#039 ; t, but people believed it. So  there was, and it still is there, but the Hungarians did so much better than  anyone else around in Europe, mostly because of their language and the issue of  background but they believed in the country itself. Anti-Semitism will always exist.    I read a few, I&amp;#039 ; d recommend a few books to you, I have no personal interest if  you read or don&amp;#039 ; t read it it&amp;#039 ; s just for your own edification. One book you might  not read, but you will look at the focus of it--Daniel Goldhagen, he&amp;#039 ; s a Harvard  professor. The name of the book is &amp;quot ; Hitler&amp;#039 ; s Willing Executioners.&amp;quot ;  It&amp;#039 ; s a very  big book, like 900 pages, it&amp;#039 ; s full of photographs, full of documents, Xeroxed  documents. Amongst them, a photograph of a German soldier holding a rifle to the  head of a little kid, and what&amp;#039 ; s terrible about it is someone took this picture,  sent it home to his girlfriend, the back of the picture said look what we are  doing -- be proud of it. Some of the other pictures are them take a knife and  shaving the side of his hair and face, no soap, just cutting it off with a  knife. A lot of the photographs document what the S.S. did all on their own,  Hitler could not have done it-- he&amp;#039 ; s not the only bad man. He could not have  accomplished what he did accomplish without the full cooperation of German, not  German those were other who were just as bad and they weren&amp;#039 ; t Germans.    Question: Could you spell the authors name?    Answer: Goldhagan    Vopat: It&amp;#039 ; s on reserve in the library.    Kennedy: Don&amp;#039 ; t buy it, its best you go to the library.    Another one that I got the last couple of years, the author is, Kertesz.    I used to teach engineering at Purdue and Illinois Institute of Technology, in  those days there were no overhead projectors, just three large blackboards like  this. Speaking and lecturing from six to nine, at nine o&amp;#039 ; clock I couldn&amp;#039 ; t talk  from all the chalk dust.    This is the author&amp;#039 ; s name, the name of the book is called &amp;quot ; Fateless&amp;quot ; , they made  a movie out of it, that is a rather (unintelligible). He got the Nobel Prize for  literature a couple--two or three years ago, he lives in Germany but published  it in Hungarian, it&amp;#039 ; s a Hungarian book. &amp;quot ; Fateless&amp;quot ;  is the name of the book.    Another interesting book I read, the authors name is this, Pogany, the name is  &amp;quot ; Am I My Brother&amp;#039 ; s Keeper?&amp;quot ;  It&amp;#039 ; s a true story, documented about a Jewish family.  Half of the family converts to Catholicism, one of them becomes a Catholic  priest, the other one-- some of them stay as a Jew, some of the become Catholic,  non-practicing Catholic. When Hitler came, they were equally tortured. The  Catholic priest escapes out of Hungary, goes to Italy, and lives through the war  in a monastery. The rest of the family is in Hungary. The mother of the family  clutches a crucifix as she walks into the gas chamber in Auschwitz. The only  difference was that we were wearing 4 inch diameter yellow star of David. They  wore white star of David. That was the difference. It&amp;#039 ; s a very interesting book.  The discussion between the Catholic priest brother and the one who goes through  camps and decides in the camps to reconvert and becomes a Jew again.    By the way, sometimes people ask me about a name on my arm, but I do not have a  number on my arm because those things were only in the major extermination camps  like Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Bergen-Belsen and a few others, but  besides that there were hundreds and hundreds of minor small sub camps, I was in  one of them, that were not extermination camps, meaning they didn&amp;#039 ; t exterminate  you like my grandparents were. Arrived, gassed, (unintelligible) and up the  chimney. There were supposedly labor camps that turned into concentration camps,  we didn&amp;#039 ; t get numbered, and didn&amp;#039 ; t keep track of what happened to us, no one  kept track of--At least no knowledgeable (unintelligible) on what happened to  the others, the other (unintelligible). There were marches and people who  couldn&amp;#039 ; t march fast enough, straggled, stayed back, and the easiest thing was  they shot them, and they stayed on the roadside, died there.    Vopat: Mr. Kennedy, you said that you knew, your father knew and family knew  when you were going to be taken? How did that happen, what did they do?    Answer: They received a letter, you are to report to a certain place. Bring food  and the clothes you were wearing.    Vopat: Who was it from?    Answer: The government, the Hungarian government    Vopat: The Hungarian government?    Kennedy: The Hungarian government. The Hungarian government at that point did  everything the Germans wanted. During that time, they were just as bad, maybe  even worse in some instances than the Germans. I remember we were in the  Carpathian Mountains and we were working, and we didn&amp;#039 ; t know about D-day. One  day we found out there was a landing in Western Europe and we were told that &amp;quot ; we  are sweeping the Americans into the ocean&amp;quot ; . We said well, if they are sweeping  them into the ocean that means Americans must have landed and that&amp;#039 ; s the only  reason we found out about D-day at all. We were kept out in the forest, no  contact with anybody.       The Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from the University of Wisconsin-Parkside Archives &amp;amp ;  Area Research Center. 0 UWPMC018_Kennedy_2007.xml UWPMC018_Kennedy_2007.xml      </text>
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          <element elementId="42">
            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="107505">
                <text>Color photograph</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="38">
            <name>Coverage</name>
            <description>The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="107506">
                <text>Racine, Wisconsin</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="40">
            <name>Date</name>
            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="107507">
                <text>2020-10-09</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="107508">
                <text>COVID-19 (Disease)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="107509">
                <text>UW-Parkside</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
      </elementSet>
    </elementSetContainer>
  </item>
</itemContainer>
